Legislature(1999 - 2000)
05/12/1999 02:24 PM Senate HES
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SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
May 12, 1999
2:24 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Mike Miller, Chairman
Senator Pete Kelly, Vice-Chairman
Senator Gary Wilken
Senator Kim Elton
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Drue Pearce
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 117
"An Act relating to property insurance required for school
districts."
-MOVED CSSB 117(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
SENATE BILL NO. 170
"An Act relating to credited service under the teachers' retirement
system for education employees on leave without pay or receiving
workers' compensation benefits because of certain on-the-job
injuries."
-MOVED CSSB 170(HES)OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 70(RLS) am
"An Act relating to questionnaires or surveys administered in
public schools."
-MOVED SCS CSHB 70(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 117 - See HESS minutes dated 4/19/99, 5/3/99 and 5/6/99
SB 170 - No previous action to report
HB 70 - No previous action to report
WITNESS REGISTER
Mr. Robert Krogseng
Aide to Senator Robin Taylor
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented SB 117
Mr. John Cyr, President
NEA Alaska
114 2nd St.
Juneau, AK 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 170
Mr. Guy Bell, Director
Division of Retirement & Benefits
Department of Administration
PO Box 110207
Juneau, AK 99811-0203
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 170
Mr. Bill Church, Retirement Supervisor
Division of Retirement & Benefits
Department of Administration
PO Box 110207
Juneau, AK 99811-0203
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on SB 170
Ms. Rynnieva Moss, Staff Aide
Representative John Coghill
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSHB 226(HES)
Representative Fred Dyson
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 70
Ms. Lisa Torkelson, Staff Aide
Representative Fred Dyson
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 70
Mr. Elmer Lindstrom, Special Assistant
Department of Health & Social Services
PO Box 110601
Juneau, AK 99811-0601
POSITION STATEMENT: Commented on HB 70
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 99-28, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN MILLER called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee to order at 2:24 p.m. Members present
were Senators Pete Kelly, Gary Wilken, Kim Elton, and Chairman
Miller. The first bill to come before the committee was SB 117.
SB 117-INSURANCE FOR SCHOOL DISTRICTS
ROBERT KROGSENG, staff to Senator Taylor, discussed a proposed
amendment designed to address concerns raised about the definition
of earthquake zones at the last meeting. He noted while doing
research for the amendment, it came to his attention that the U.S.
Geological Survey (USGS) is in the process of changing its
terminology and will be designating earthquake contours rather than
zones. The national building code staff plans to adopt new
terminology as well. The proposed amendment replaces the words "an
active seismic area" with "areas where ground motions exceed 0.2 of
a second, spectral acceleration of 75 percent gravity, as
delineated on a ground motion map for Alaska based on USGS Geologic
Investigation Series Maps 1-2679." Committee packets contain a map
that outlines the areas that meet the new delineation; those areas
were previously referred to as zones 3 and 4. The USGS is in the
process of creating a map for the Legislature that will define the
areas more clearly.
SENATOR ELTON asked how such a map will affect insurance company
claims if insurance companies consider the entire state to be an
active seismic area.
MR. KROGSENG said it is his understanding that insurance companies
essentially work off of, and with, the building codes and that the
new terminology will be adopted into the building codes.
SENATOR ELTON asked whether municipalities with their own building
codes will have to make that change.
MR. KROGSENG replied that all building codes are currently being
combined into one nationwide code. Most municipalities have an
automatic reference to the latest building code, others adopt each
new code as it is released.
Number 093
SENATOR ELTON asked for an explanation of the definition.
MR. KROGSENG said that structural problems occur when the ground
motion is higher than the number contained in the definition. Most
structural specifications can withstand less ground motion.
SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 1. SENATOR ELTON objected
and said originally, the bill only addressed a perceived problem
with regulations that pertain to flood insurance for schools, and
he is not sure the bill is necessary at all. The bill now attempts
to fix a problem with earthquake insurance when no school district
has testified that it is a problem.
The motion to adopt Amendment 1 carried with Senators Pete Kelly,
Wilken and Miller voting "yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay."
SENATOR ELTON moved to delete, on page 1 line 9, "(1)" to put a
period after "flood prone area" on line 11, and to delete the
remaining language on lines 11 through 13. The net effect of
Amendment 2 will be to strike all references in the bill to
earthquakes.
SENATOR WILKEN objected and said the intent of the bill is to save
money, and that rather than have to revisit the issue in the
future, it makes sense to address earthquake insurance now.
SENATOR ELTON maintained that legislating for problems that have
not occurred is difficult. In addition, he is not convinced that
a new definition of earthquake zones will be used by insurance
companies to determine rates.
The motion to adopt Amendment 2 failed with Senator Elton voting
"yea," and Senators Wilken, Kelly and Miller voting "nay."
There being no further discussion on SB 117, SENATOR WILKEN moved
SB 117 as amended out of committee with individual recommendations
and its accompanying fiscal note. SENATOR ELTON objected. The
motion carried with Senators Kelly, Wilken and Miller voting
"yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay."
Number 216
SB 170-CREDITED SERVICE FOR ON-THE-JOB INJURIES
JOHN CYR, President of NEA Alaska, thanked Chairman Miller and
Representative Coghill for introducing this legislation. NEA
believes SB 170 speaks to fairness. It allows a teacher who is
assaulted on the job and is forced to go on leave without pay
status to maintain their retirement benefits. It also allows
teachers who go on leave without pay for other reasons to
contribute to his/her retirement accounts. NEA hopes that no
teacher will ever have to rely on the provisions of this bill,
however assaults on the job do happen and create an extreme
hardship on teachers and their families at the time as well as at
retirement time.
SENATOR WILKEN asked if SB 170 will apply to a teacher hurt on the
job. MR. CYR said SB 170 only applies to teachers who are
assaulted on the job and the injury would have to be serious enough
to force the teacher to rely on workers' compensation. He explained
that a teacher is eligible to use sick leave for accidents or
illnesses that are not job related. While on sick leave, a teacher
remains on paid status and continues to contribute to his/her
retirement account. A teacher who is hurt on the job is eligible
for workers' compensation.
Number 267
GUY BELL, Director of the Division of Retirement and Benefits,
stated SB 170 is the Senate corollary to HB 226. Section 3(d)
effectively puts the teachers' retirement system (TRS) on par with
the public employees' retirement system (PERS) as it relates to on-
the-job injuries. With this change, a person on leave without pay
who receives workers' compensation benefits, due to an on-the-job
injury, can apply for service credit for that time and pay the
indebtedness. The remainder of the bill addresses assault issues.
The major change in CSHB 226, made by a House committee the
previous day, is that a teacher must have received a physical
injury from the assault.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked where that change was made in the bill. MR.
BELL said that provision was inserted throughout the bill by the
legislative drafter.
MR. BELL added that other technical issues related to normal
retirement benefits and disabiity retirement in TRS were addressed,
in particular when a person is disabled as a result of the assault.
MR. BELL said the costs, from an actuarial point of view, are
immaterial to the system.
SENATOR ELTON noted other kinds of assault injuries, such as
emotional injuries, can be equally debilitating. He asked what
amount the fiscal note would contain if other types of injuries are
included.
MR. BELL said that would be very difficult to quantify and is the
reason the Division wanted the bill to specify physical injuries.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked Rynnieva Moss to update the committee on HB
226.
Number 325
RYNNIEVA MOSS, legislative aide to Representative Coghill,
explained the latest House version specifies that the injury must
be physical. In addition, in Section 1, AS 14.25.140(a) was
inserted so that the benefit would terminate once the employee was
put on disability pension. Also, in Section 6, after AS 39.45.370,
language was added that terminates PERS eligibility when a
disability pension kicks in. The original version of HB 226
contained some drafting errors that were also corrected.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked Mr. Bell if he had any objections to the
House HESS committee substitute to HB 226. MR. BELL said he did
not.
SENATOR WILKEN moved to incorporate the changes made in CSHB 226
into SB 170, and to moved SB 170 as amended out of committee with
individual recommendations. There being no objection, the motion
carried.
HB 70-PUBLIC SCHOOL SURVEYS
TAPE 99-28
Number 400
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON, sponsor of HB 70, informed committee members
that about 25 years ago the Legislature enacted AS 14.03.110, which
defines when parental consent is necessary for student
participation in school surveys and questionnaires. The Basic
Youth Risk Survey was recently administered, and because
participants remain anonymous, confusion has arisen about whether
parental permission is necessary. He was contacted by concerned
parents who wanted to be "in the loop." Initially, a drafter from
the Division of Legal Services informed him that inserting the word
"personal" into statute would require parental consent. However,
after the Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS) expressed
concern that obtaining active parental consent for hundreds of
children would be difficult, he revisited the bill. The bill was
then changed to revise the statute to allow parents to give blanket
approval for anonymous surveys at the time the student registers.
It continues to require parental notification when surveys are
conducted and allows parents to review each survey. Some educators
have expressed concern that they will be prevented from asking
personal questions when dealing with students with behavioral
problems, or about the students' real or apparent dysfunction. He
noted during last minute efforts on the House floor, a few changes
were not adopted. He asked committee members to consider amending
the measure to adopt those changes which are contained in Amendment
Education (DOE) concern that some educators will interpret the bill
to prohibit them from asking and recording personal questions of a
student who is believed to be at risk for violent behavior.
Amendment #2 clearly defines that the bill applies to group
surveys, not to the efforts of an educator to do individual
interventions.
CHAIRMAN MILLER stated it is his understanding that Amendment #2
was drafted by Representative Dyson and Commissioner Cross.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said that is correct and added that DOE has
bent over backwards to work with him on this bill.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked for an explanation of Amendment #1.
LISA TORKELSON, legislative aide to Representative Dyson, explained
that when she sent a memo requesting changes to the Division of
Legal Services during the last minute effort to pass the bill on
the House floor, the Division missed one change and she missed one.
The first change allows for the blanket permission opportunity,
which is active parental support. A form giving parents the option
of granting permission could be provided to each parent. The
intent of the blanket permission form is to save money. It would
provide for follow-up notification to parents at least two weeks
prior to the survey and it provides a second opportunity to say
"no." The second change applies the opportunity to for parents to
review each questionnaire, whether the questionnaire is intended
for anonymous participation or not. Language on page 2 requires a
school to provide written notice of how the questionnaire will be
administered, how the results will be used, and who will have
access to the survey.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added very few educators continue to have
concerns about the changes; however, health agency officials want
data from the Youth Behavior Risk Surveys and believe getting
blanket approval at the time of registration will be too difficult.
A valid survey response requires participation by one-sixth of the
student population. Most school districts can easily administer
the permission requirement as it will entail adding one more box
to a form.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON stated some school districts have used this
opportunity to increase parental participation in their schools and
to prompt discussion.
Number 488
SENATOR ELTON referred to Representative Dyson's statement that
only one-sixth of a student body need participate to validate the
survey results, and stated narrowing the survey field allows people
to self select involvement thereby impacting the validity of the
survey.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON noted that observation is valid and that the
parents who might not want their child to participate in an
anonymous survey might be the parents the school most needs to hear
from. He stated some schools have allowed for passive permission
in which a child is sent home with a survey that is completed at
home and returned. That method also contains an inadvertent
selection process. Some school districts send certified letters.
He surmised that irresponsibility on the part of parents in not
responding to their mail distorts the survey results as much as the
active permission requirement.
SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment #1 (KA.1) which reads as
follows.
Page 1, line 15, following ".":
Insert "The school shall provide each student's parent or
legal guardian at least two weeks' notice before administering a
questionnaire or survey described under this subsection."
Page 2. lines 4-5:
Delete all material.
Insert "questionnaire or survey is administered.
(d) The school shall give a student's parent or legal
guardian an opportunity to review the questionnaire or survey
described under (b) or (c) of this section and shall"
Reletter the following subsections accordingly.
SENATOR ELTON objected on the basis that Amendment 1 is fairly
substantive as the bill now provides that general permission be
requested once per year by a school district. Amendment 1 provides
another threshold: it imposes an additional requirement on
districts by requiring that further approval be obtained two weeks
before each survey is conducted. He noted he is much more
comfortable with the bill as written.
MS. TORKELSON indicated most school districts currently notify
parents two weeks in advance in the form of a newsletter or note.
That notification only applies to those who have given blanket
permission for anonymous surveys.
Number 534
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added USC 20.1232 limits the surveys that can
be conducted by schools and says, "educational institutions shall
give parents and students effective notice of their rights ...."
He explained Amendment 1 merely requires two week notification and
gives parents the right to inspect the survey upon request.
Amendment 1 was adopted with Senators Wilken, Pete Kelly, and
Miller voting "yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay."
SENATOR WILKEN moved Amendment 2 which reads as follows.
Page 2, following line 12:
Insert a new subsection to read:
"(e) In this section, "questionnaire or survey" means a
list of questions to, or information collected from, a class or
group of students."
SENATOR ELTON objected for the purpose of proposing an amendment to
Amendment 2. He stated his concern with the existing amendment is
that if a teacher asks a class whether it watched the television
program "60 Minutes" and then asked whether students agreed with
the premise of the show, i.e., the glass ceiling for women, that
the teacher has asked a list of questions which fits the definition
of Amendment 2, thereby enacting the two week notice violation. He
suggested amending Amendment 2 by adding the following language to
the end of the last sentence, "and where the information is to be
given to another entity." He explained that language would specify
that the provision applies to information collected from the
student group and then transferred to another entity.
CHAIRMAN MILLER expressed concern that without the entire statute
before him, it is difficult to determine whether this section
refers to written surveys only.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he understands Senator Elton's concern
and is not opposed to his amendment, but he is unsure that it is
necessary. He noted the bill was designed to address large group
surveys conducted for a purpose other than classroom teaching.
CHAIRMAN MILLER referred to the statute and clarified that
Amendment 2 applies to questionnaires that inquire into personal or
private family matters of a student, therefore he did not believe
the teacher's inquiry, in Senator Elton's example, would fall under
this bill.
TAPE 99-28, SIDE B
SENATOR ELTON maintained the committee should not focus on the only
example he provided as other scenarios might apply in which a
teacher asks questions to prompt discussion and not to obtain
information for another entity.
CHAIRMAN MILLER repeated that Amendment 2 applies to surveys about
personal or private family matters, and that even if the survey
results are to be kept in house, he believes parental permission
should be required.
Number 576
SENATOR ELTON suggested defining "personal and private" within the
bill to protect Chairman Miller's concern. He thought that a
person's political persuasion is a personal matter, as well as
whether a student has an addiction. He also expressed concern that
questions can be phrased in such a way that personal information
can be surmised from the response.
SENATOR WILKEN suggested specifying that Amendment 2 applies to a
written list of questions requiring an individual written response.
SENATOR ELTON indicated that if his amendment fails, he would
support Senator Wilken's suggested language because it narrows the
focus.
SENATOR WILKEN said that as a parent he would not want a teacher
asking his child certain types of questions, whether the questions
are designed to be used in house or not.
CHAIRMAN MILLER expressed concern that the amendment not be
narrowed too much because he would be opposed, for example, to a
teacher asking for a show of hands of the number of students who
had sexual intercourse, even though the teacher did not intend to
use the information outside of the class.
SENATOR ELTON said he does not agree that kind of a question is
appropriate whether written or not, and it is an egregious example
of what could happen and is part of a different debate. He
maintained that the bill does not address classroom discussion but
is designed to address questionnaires and surveys, therefore that
the bill should specify that questionnaires and surveys are
instruments used to collect data for another entity for a specific
purpose.
Number 527
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON pointed out the House Judiciary Committee
spent many afternoons discussing the same questions, and that the
issue comes down to one's philosophy. He noted the country of
India's constitution is 4+ feet thick because it contains
provisions for many "what if" scenarios. He stated Alaska's
Constitution has a marvelous guarantee of privacy, and one
paragraph regarding this issue in Alaska's statutes has served us
well for many years. It is only when the Youth Behavior Risk
Survey came into being that this bill was created because the
statute does not contain the word "personal," regarding survey
questions. He argued that if the solution is further definition in
the bill, DOE can solve the problem in regulation. He also stated
that he believes Alaska teachers are a high quality group,
therefore the statute should be kept as simple as possible.
CHAIRMAN MILLER asked if there was further discussion about the
amendment to Amendment 2. There being no further discussion, the
amendment to Amendment 2 failed with Senators Wilken, Kelly, and
Miller voting "nay," and Senator Elton voting "yea."
SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 2 as follows.
"(e) In this section, "questionnaire or survey" means a
written list of questions requiring an individual written
response."
CHAIRMAN MILLER objected.
SENATOR ELTON questioned whether, by removing the reference to a
group of students, Amendment 2 will affect interactions between
students and counselors.
SENATOR WILKEN moved to amend Amendment 2 to read:
"(e) In this section, "questionnaire or survey" means a
written list of questions requiring an individual written response
from a class or group of students."
CHAIRMAN MILLER stated his concern with Amendment 2 is that it was
worked on by Commissioner Cross, a former Superintendent of the
Fairbanks school district, who worked on a lot of these issues.
Commissioner Cross actually threw out some questions proposed by
the Fairbanks school district on the basis the questions were too
personal. He stated he feels more comfortable with Amendment 2 as
is, knowing Commissioner Cross has experience in this area and
believes the original Amendment 2 is workable for school districts.
SENATOR WILKEN asked Representative Dyson his opinion of the
amendment to Amendment 2. REPRESENTATIVE DYSON replied he is
comfortable with what the drafters and Commissioner came up with.
SENATOR WILKEN withdrew his amendment to Amendment 2.
CHAIRMAN MILLER announced Amendment 2(KA.2) was before the
committee. There being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON proposed Amendment 3 which will add the
following phrase to line 10, page 2:
"(d) A student may, without penalty, refuse to participate in
a questionnaire or survey administered in a public school."
Number 461
SENATOR ELTON asked that the Department of Education comment on
Amendment 3. He questioned whether surveys are conducted in which
the results are shared with participants only, and if so, whether
Amendment 3 will force the sharing of that information with people
who refuse to participate.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said he did not think so. He recounted his
school experience with students who could not participate in the
Pledge of Allegiance because of religious convictions. Those
students were made to feel odd about it. He added the intent of
Amendment 3 is to ensure that nothing official is done to penalize
or ostracize students who do not participate.
CHAIRMAN MILLER stated he views Amendment 3 as prohibiting official
action against a student for non-participation in a survey.
SENATOR WILKEN moved to adopt Amendment 3.
SENATOR ELTON objected.
BETH LAPE, Department of Education, stated she did not have any
background on the penalty issue.
SENATOR ELTON again asked if surveys are taken in which the survey
results are shared with participants only, and whether Amendment 3
will compel the sharing of results with people who refuse to
participate in the survey.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON clarified the anonymous survey results are
compiled for general use. No mechanism exists to discriminate who
will receive the aggregated data.
Number 409
SENATOR ELTON questioned whether the results of a survey of
students with sexually transmitted diseases would be shared with
people who refused to participate in the survey.
CHAIRMAN MILLER thought that issue does not relate to the amendment
which prohibits punishing students who refuse to participate.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON said the bone of contention is on the
anonymous surveys, therefore no link between the data and
participants should exist.
CHAIRMAN MILLER announced Amendment 3 failed with Senator Wilken
and Chairman Miller voting "yea," and Senators Pete Kelly and Elton
voting "nay."
SENATOR WILKEN asked if the Youth Risk Behavior Survey is
administered to an entire class. MS. TORKELSON said it takes one
class period to complete. SENATOR WILKEN questioned how the
results could be reliable unless the margin of error is great.
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to Commissioner Perdue,
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), stated the Youth
Risk Behavior Survey is the "gold standard" of that type of survey.
It is the only survey of its type administered nationwide,
therefore results can be compared to other states. It represents
a statistically valid sample selected from sample districts and is
sponsored by the National Center for Disease Control.
SENATOR WILKEN moved SCS CSHB 70(HES) from committee with
individual recommendations and its zero fiscal note. SENATOR ELTON
objected. The motion to move SCS CSHB 70(HES) from committee
carried with Senators Wilken, Kelly, and Chairman Miller voting
"yea," and Senator Elton voting "nay."
CHAIRMAN MILLER adjourned the meeting.
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